, the one thing they are specific about is they will take taxes from 18.5% of the economy under normal circumstances, the historical average for the last 30, 40 years, to 21%. that over a decade is a $5 trillion tax increase. they tend not to talk about it, but it's the most important thing in simpson/bowles, a $5 trillion tax increase. there is no room for tax reform because they take all that lovely money, and they spend it. >> look, okay, there's tax rates and tax revenues. now a couple of things, tax rates, marginal rates are different from tax revenues. revenues can come from growth, from capped deductions. i just want to ask you, grover, do you support mitt romney's plan which would lower the rates, put a strict limit on the dollars of tax deductions and increase the economic growth rate? do you support romney? >> well, romney's plan is revenue neutral. he's made a commitment to the american people not to have a net tax increase. that's a great plan. obama wants higher tax rates, and schumer, the leader in the senate, made that clear as well, so it's between romney wanting to cut
